NBA 2K8 vs NBA Live 08: Franchise Modes
So I'm finishing up both Live and 2K8 and I wanted to mention a few things today about the franchise modes. BUT -- before I do that, I'm curious about something. I have always been a big franchise guy, going back to my FPS Football days. When I saw that game's franchise mode, a light when on. Wow...multiple seasons...an easy interface...player progression! WOW!
That fiery joy, first experienced in oh...around 1992-ish, is now a small burnt piece of smoldering coal. I am of the opinion that today's franchise modes, at least the console stuff, TOTALLY misses the point. Utterly. Completely. Entirely. Um...immensely!
Part of it is feature bloat. Part of it is free agency. Part of it is just lack of giving a shit. Prioritizing is what they call it, actually. I wonder how many people actually play the franchise modes in these games because if they did, you would think they'd be better than what they are now.
I think they miss the point by making it way too complicated, way too finicky and full of busy work. Yes, you can automate a lot of it but it's all just a time consuming mess. Training players? Really? That's fun...how exactly? Hiring STAFF? WOW! Thrillsville!
All of this outside noise should be scrapped and replaced with stuff that actually, you know, matters. Like player progression, realistic ratings, an age model that makes sense. Sharp trade AI.
Even the $$ part I dislike. I know it's part of today's sports world but I'll tell you this: I never had more fun with a franchise mode than I did with FPS Football and High Heat Baseball -- neither of which dealt with money-- AT ALL. Now, I did use a utility for High Heat that simulated free agency, but it worked just fine, kept the rosters dynamic and took almost NO TIME to get through. See, a TEXT game Like OOTP can get away with all the numbers, deals, and minutiae of sports. IN games like that you need it. Consoles games can't get away with it. The interfaces don't support it and it ends up being a whole lotta busy work.
Example: Madden (and Live 08). Free agency consists of you offering a player and they either say yes or no. No bid wars, nothing like that just "take it or leave it buddy." That's just 5 ways of stupid. I would much rather play a franchise mode on a console before the days of free agency all together. Let me draft and trade my way to the top. Money just screws it up because the AI can't deal with it. So why bother?
These modes need stripped down so you can get through an off season in less than 10 minutes. No staff nonsense. No player training sillyness.
Anyway, on to Live and 2K8. Clearly, 2K8 is the better game. Lots better. By no means perfect and I think should not win any post season Sports Game of the Year awards because it's just too flaky. But it's a whole lot better than Live even though that game is much better than Live 07.
2K could learn a few things from the Live team, though. I simmed several years in each game (which takes too long but anyway..) 2K's is deeper, and better in a lot of ways but tell me this. Which looks more realistic and more importantly less game breaking to you?
After the first season (2007) the number of players rated 90+:
NBA 2K8: 41
NBA Live 08: 12
Year Two:
NBA 2K8: 53
NBA Live 08: 13
Yes, after a few seasons 2K8 is LITTERED with stars. Not the fictional players, they mature VERY slowly, but established players keep zooming up the charts. Now yes, age starts to take its toll but that too happens too slow. It doesn't keep pace with the progression of the younger players. What you get then is a league full of studs and one where a lot of rookies and 2nd year players manage to get 5 minutes per game, stunting their growth.
Live 08's franchise mode is pretty crappy too, don't get me wrong but they did nail this part down. A 90 rated player is bad ass. In 2K8 after year five there were SEVEN 99 rated players. That's INSANE.
As for 2K's rookies. I grabbed six rooks at random and watched their progression over five seasons. Here's the breakdown:
#1 overall 76er . Started out a 72 OVR and progressed:
76/79/83 -- so that's 72/76/79/83/83
#2 pick Hornet
77/85/84/89/88
#3 Pacer
68/73/73/73/74
#4 Clipper
79/84/86/86/86
#5 Blazer:
75/79/84/83/84
#19 Heat
66/73/75/76/77
#24 Celtic
72/75/76/74/76
The best rookie in this class was the Hornets #2 OVR player who topped at 89 (when I stopped). This would be GREAT...if the rest of the league were not loaded with 90+ players. Development starts to slow down after year five it seems. You usually know if the guy is going to pan out or not and I didn't see any HUGE busts. That Pacer pick wasn't the best, though. Actually, yeah, that's a bust. a 74 OVR is a backup at best in this game. In fact the #1 OVR pick to Philly isn't too great either considering he gets about 8 minutes per game.
I'll have more on this stuff later, but it's just frustrating to want to play these games in their franchise mode inly to see them half developed. But I wonder -- is it that big of a deal? Do enough people even play them to worry about it? If they don't...why are they even there in the first place?
NBA 2K8 Losing its Luster
Well, for me, anyway. It started right before I left to go see Todd and his family for the weekend and it has built into full on frustration.
Todd and I encountered a serious scoring bug when we played at his house. I just wanted to whow him the game because he doesn't have it yet and we ran a Celtics/Pistons exhibition with 5-min quaters in default Pro settings, which means we rarely missed, but that was fine. It was default Pro. The game went back and forth and I was up 3 with :10 seconds to play and Billups pulled up a deep 3 and I fouled him. Ack!
He sank the first...sank the second..and then I got the ball.
Whoops.
The announcer even said "He'll get to shoot three!" He shot two. I won by a point. This is one of those bugs that may rarely pop up but when it DOES it has the potential to completely ruin a game. Game ruining bugs simply CANNOT make it into a final build. And when they do you better get your coding hat back on and release a patch. Talk about a shitty way to finish a close game.
Problem number two isn't a bug but more of a gameplay issue. In short, Keven Garnett cannot be stopped. I know this because I play with Boston. He is killing people for 40 a game, shooting 75% from the field on the highest lvl of difficulty (Hall of Fame). He gets the ball, backs down whoever is guarding him, and either shoots a little baby hook or delivers a nasty dunk. I've messed with sliders and it doesn't change the fact that KG (or any other tough big man) is a dominator...to the point of absurdity.
The AI simply doesn't deny him the ball and is too easily backed down from the high post. I dunno what this is like online yet but the AI cannot stop him. I feel like I'm cheesballing the game whern I use Garnett to score and it shouldn't be that way.
Dirty Disc SOB!
I am one of the very lucky few who have never had a problem with their Xbox 360. No red rings, no crashes, nothing. Well, I dunno if this is a system problem per say but I do hear from a lot of gamers about the dreaded dirty disc error. I haven't seen much of this either but I simply cannot play NBA 2K8 without it crashing in the 3rd quarter. The sound cuts out (actually just the play by play) and then I get the dirty disc error after about 3 mins w/o sound.
For those that have seen this -- what's the alternative? Clean the disc? Get a new disc?
For the record, I am CRAZY in love with this game -- NBA 2K8 is seriously, seriously good, but this disc shit is irksome to say the least.
Advice Needed
Before I get to that, I should mention that Todd's NHL 08 review is finally up. Worth a read. Todd's a good hockey critic. I am making my bi-annual trek to Todd Land with the family this weekend. Board games will be played and egos will be crippled.
Anyway, advice. Yes, I need some. Ashley turns 7 this month and we're going back and forth on the whole DS/Wii thing. Chances are good that I'll get one of those for the Bday and one for Christmas. My question is: which games are A-List stuff for a 7 year old? Dan suggested the Dogs game for the DS and that's a no-brainer.
But what else? I'm looking for easy, not overly frustrating...you know, something for a 7 year old. Any ideas?
A Few Quick Hitters
My totally late review of Tiger 360 is up. Also, the latest Mr. Binky column is up today. Comedy tastes run the gamut, but I think this is pretty funny. I also tossed up a Medal of Honor Airborne PC review today.
Finally, my sports column/rant is live on The Escapist. Lots of plugs today, I know.
I should get playable preview code for The Witcher any day now. I think this could be kinda cool.
Finally (2x) I'm playing NBA 2K8 right now, trying to figure out all the ISO post moves. So far I like the game, even if the animations still seem to be stuck in heavy syrup.
What The..
I'll have more Saturday thoughts later; it was a big weekend but how in the HELL can the coach poll have Illinois ranked behind Wisconsin? Seriously, ...didn't they just prove that they are a better team? I know it doesm't matter all that much but good lord people. An opinion is fine...but THEY JUST PLAYED. Illinois only loss? a 40-34 game to undefeated Mizzou on opening weekend. To have Wisconsin ahead of them is just another reason why college polling is re-feaking-diculous.
Whoops, Sorry
So I forgot I had this new Sportsgamer email address. Yesterday this dawned on me and then I checked it and had several messages from blog readers wanting sliders, OSU predictions and an offer from Jonah to loan me a copy of Blood Bowl. Sorry about that. I forgot I had the account.
I also updated my article list over there on the sidebar, as well as my current work list and all the way at the bottom, my board game play list which has been pretty thin of late. Busy weekends will do that. I might be playing Hammer of the Scots tonight, we'll see.
If not I will finally be able to dive into NBA 2K8. No Power Pros for me, being the Wii-less gamer that I am. I am getting Ashley a Nintendo DS for her B-day in 2 weeks, though. I sheepishly kinda like that thing.
NHL 2K8 and DiRT
My review of 2K8 is up today as well as Dan's take on the PS3 version of DiRT. Also, our latest Cracked LCD takes a look at Tannhauser, a game that I'd like to try.
OK, back to watering these damn trees.
Interesting NBA Live 08 Thread
Operation Sports has a thread going re: NBA Live with an EA Sports Community Manager. The Manager dropped by to get an idea of what OS-folk thought of the game.
An excerpt:
Keep in mind though that how you guys play the game can be VERY different than how the majority plays it. We must not confuse that; you guys want things out of an NBA experience that others don't. All communities are different.
A reply:
what do those other communities want? nba jam?
This is good stuff, and to me shows that certain branches of EA are still not quite getting it..and some of the requests from gamers are just baffling. It's a fun, if frustrating, read though.
College Hoops 2K8 Feature List
A press release from 2K found its way into my mailbox today. This is PR -speak, so take it FWIW, but here's the list:
A brand new feature for College Hoops 2K8 is the All-American Training Challenge, delivering an exciting series of passing, shooting, and defensive tests against some of college basketball’s best former student-athletes. Also included in College Hoops 2K8 is the 6th Man Advantage, which brings a new level of interactive atmosphere to the college basketball experience.
In the All-American Training Challenge, players will be able to improve their game skills by competing in passing, shooting, and defensive tests against former college basketball standouts like Mike Conley Jr. of Ohio State, Julian Wright of Kansas, Glen “Big Baby” Davis of LSU, Alando Tucker of Wisconsin, Al Thornton of Florida State, J.J. Redick of Duke, and College Hoops 2K8 cover athlete, Greg Oden of Ohio State.
Gamers can progress through the challenge drills against these great players while tracking their best times and highest scores in the game. With multiplayer support for up to four players, gamers can compete against their friends to see who has the best College Hoops skills.
College basketball fans will truly feel the benefit of playing in front of a frenzied crowd—be it at home or in a neutral tournament venue—with the 6th Man Advantage where the energy of a team’s fans can motivate a team to play harder and with more confidence. During a game, the 6th Man Meter measures the current energy and excitement level of the crowd. By scoring often, playing good defense, and raising the excitement level of the crowd, the 6th Man Meter will rise. Once the meter is full, the home team will gain the advantage of playing with less fatigue for a brief period while the opposing team will start to lose confidence in their playing ability. The 6th Man Advantage delivers a realistic element with how a great crowd can inspire their team to victory.
***
Hmm. Now you guys know I love the College Hoops series, but...I dunno is these are "woo hoo sweet!" features. The 6th man home court thing sounds kinda cool and also potentially overdone. I doubt I even mess with the practice drills.
Here's hoping they fix some of the bugs from 2K7, eh?
Good Weekend
Tonight could be a very rare Triple B Weekend: Buckeyes win, Browns win, Bengals lose. Those are very rare these days, so I'm going to try and savor this one. Maybe the Browns aren't a 3-13 quality team after all, eh? Or maybe the Ravens are old and overrated?
The college weekend was spectacular if you are an OSU fan. A nice bump in the polls as upsets rolled out like red carpets. I feel the one of OSU's biggest tests if this Saturday at night at Purdue. Wisconsin just doesn't scare me right now. Until they prove to me that they can stop someone...I just don't see Wisconsin scoring more than 14 at the Shoe and the OSU offense has legit weapons and they are getting better every week. The Purdue game scares me because we never play well there. Penn State...screw Penn State. I have watched that team play three times and we should be able to beat that team, I don't care if we play them on Mars.
South Florida #6. Michigan unranked. Kentucky #8? I'm trapped inside an EA Sports game.
I leave you with this:
Florida Fan Becomes Totally Unglued:
NBA 2K8 Conference Call Report
I know a lot of you already have the game, but here's my write up on the Friday developer call.
NBA 2K8 Conference Call
OK just like the NHL 2K8 call, if you have any specific questions re: NBA 2K8 you would like to me ask, fire away either here or better yet in the forums. The call is this Friday at 5PM.
I Feel Icky
I'm starting to actually like Jason Whitlock. He's written some columns of late, going back to his virtual finger at ESPN, that I think makes sense. His latest is in regards to the now infamous Gundy tirade.
Not sure how I feel about this. Not the column thing. That woman's column was a complete hack job. But agreeing with Whitlock?
NHL 2K8 Stat Pics
Posted in the forum. I know a lot of guys are digging NHL 08 but NHL 2K8 is feeding my hockey gaming hunger just fine.
So, for those keeping score at home, that's:
NCAA 08: Already shelved
Madden 08: Shelved
Tiger Woods 08: Still playing online. Soon to be shelved
NHL 2K8: 20 games in and going strong.
NBA Live: I expect great (OK, good) things
NBA 2K8: The Cavs are the 18th best team ratings wise? *18*?
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